Date of Interview: 13 September 2025
Interviewer: Robin Khor
Interviewee: Jonathan Man
ROBIN KHOR
Why don’t you start by telling us, how did your journey with New Earth Theatre begin?
JONATHAN MAN
Well, that’s a good question. I think before meeting New Earth, a little bit about me. So there’s lots of different phases, but one identity that I have is a British born Chinese. So I grew up on the south coast of the UK in Portsmouth, and my parents came over from Hong Kong to here in the sixties. So prior to New Earth, I didn’t have much growing up, no contact, very little contact with theatre and the performing arts. Coming from a catering background,it was really, my parents worked hard and, you know. So New Earth was a real surprise to the system. After university I travelled for a bit and then realised I really enjoyed the performing arts and saved up to do a one year diploma in production operations in making theatre, film, radio, TV, you know, and when I came out of that, you know, as an artist, I don’t know what my voice is. I don’t quite know what I want to do. And so I didn’t even know I needed to connect with a company like New Earth.
So my first job out of diploma was at Ovalhouse Theatre, now called Brixton House, doing admin, and someone on there suggested I have a chat with David Tse, who ran at the time called Yellow Earth Theatre. And I was like, okay, let’s have a chat. And it was like, oh my god, it’s almost like a hand I didn’t know existed. Finally, God, there’s something else here. There’s another whole other part of me.
New Earth sort of embodied three different things. Obviously, theatre and physical theatre form that I hadn’t been exposed to much in the past. And secondly, seeing East and Southeast Asians doing it, I was like, oh my gosh. So in the noughties, theatre was so different to now today that in Time Out you saw all the listings and maybe, you know, in a year there’d be maybe a handful of black British plays in the whole year in Time Out, in sort of smaller spaces like Ovalhouse Theatre and a New Earth show, maybe once a year, maybe eighteen months or whatever. It was called at the time, black, Asian and minority ethnic theatre, or a BAME or BME. And now we use the term global majority. Global majority theatre was, my gosh, it was almost absent. And even on our TVs, if you saw a black person on TV, it’d be like, oh, there’s a person on TV and Asians, absolutely none whatsoever.
The first show I saw of New Earth was The Butcher’s Skin, and it was just, it blew my mind. Seeing physical theatre, seeing actors playing multiple roles, seeing comedy, seeing heartbreak, seeing this story really brought to life and these three huge God puppets dominating the space and then seeing people who are at the top of their game as actors just perform their socks off, really. So people like Tom Wu and Veronica Needa and Kwong Loke. And who were part of the co-founders of New Earth along with David Tse, Kumiko Mendl. So seeing people, you know, doing what they loved, there was something in my heart that just really sort of jumped as well, really.
I think that plays like The Butcher’s Skin just are an embodiment of countering racist narratives and becoming more aware of other voices and stories. And the third bit was about advocacy. So, David Tse you know, we spoke at the Eclipse Conference on anti-racist strategies for theatre in 2001, can you believe it? But hearing David speak so passionately about the political landscape for theatre and the wider political landscape. I never heard that before. I was in the politics society at my school and heard politicians. But hearing someone blend art, passion and politics and everyone at New Earth does that. Even Ailin, Lian, Wai Mun on the board, etc. do it today. But seeing that in the noughties was just absolutely, really amazing.
ROBIN KHOR
And what is it that you decided that you were going to be part of the team now?
JONATHAN MAN
It takes time. So, you know, you see shows and you see more shows and you kind of like, oh, this is interesting. Another show I saw was 58, which is a very sad story about the people being smuggled in a lorry with tomatoes, etc. and they shut off the air vents and fifty eight of them passed away. It was a very harrowing story. There’s something about that particular piece of work. There was a British Chinese character in it, played by a wonderful actress called Nina Kwok. And I was like, wow, I’m really seeing someone that connects to my sensibility on stage. It was such a powerful piece of theatre, and that’s probably, I was like, let’s see if there’s a way to sort of become more involved. So I guess there were sort of two things that happened.
Firstly, Veronica and I, she invited me round. She really talked about the power of looking at one’s roots. So she got me photocopied all these things around Chinese culture. And she also had a book that she gave me, you know, these things that she gave me. And I was like, you don’t know me, but you are, you know, you’re gifting me these things. And, you know, that changed my course. Prior to meeting Veronica, oh I want to do Chekhovs and Shakespeares. I like working with people from different backgrounds. But now I predominantly work with BESEA actors in the work that I do now.
So I think Veronica opened my eyes to the power of my culture and the power of research, and David opened my eyes to the political aspects and I guess the company as a whole. And there was the general manager, Diana Pao, as well. But there’s something about, okay, I need to apply for some funding to spend some time at New Earth. So I applied to Arts Council England for a one year professional development programme, and I put together residencies with New Earth Theatre and Nottingham Playhouse, Soho Theatre and Tamasha Theatre. With Yellow Earth, they had a co-production of King Lear with the Royal Shakespeare Company as a part of their really ambitious Complete Works project to produce all the plays of Shakespeare. And so I was the assistant director to David Tse for that, and I was the tour director for that show that opened in Shanghai, went to Chongqing, and then toured around the UK. We’re in Shanghai and Chongqing, but it was also placed in a British Chinese character at the center of the story. And then we had a movie star, Yemang, and people would be getting flights from China to Stratford upon Avon to see him and these, you know, swarming whatever, you know, I’m like, wow. It was the time of my life. So I think that that’s how I was able to be a really integrated part of the New Earth family, and having a credit with New Earth and RSC. And then the other part of my residency at New Earth was attending board meetings. So I was like, wow, seeing how a company actually works. So that was a really, really eye opening to see the finances and see how precarious a touring company can be, etc., and how you mitigate against that.
ROBIN KHOR
Would you describe that time with King Lear was the first time that you felt this family wholesomeness or like this family relationship with Yellow Earth? Or was it before?
JONATHAN MAN
I would say that was where it really solidified as, yeah, theatre creates families and then the families, then they evolve.
ROBIN KHOR
How would you say that your involvement with New Earth Theatre shaped your professional career?
JONATHAN MAN
So I’m a theatre director and I’m also a writer, and I also produce, you know, as a freelancer. I never thought I’d be making British East and Southeast Asian theatre, musicals growing up, etc. so I think New Earth gave me the confidence and gave me the tools to make this kind of theatre. So prior to becoming co-artistic director at Yellow Earth, I directed a production of Midsummer Night’s Dream for Southwark Playhouse, set in feudal Japan, and the production was a winner of the Better Bankside Shakespeare Award, which, as well as performing it to adults in the evening, you perform the show to really underprivileged children in schools during the day, so you got to create a show that appeals to both.
And I guess New Earth methodology about going to the root allowed me to bring on sort of Japanese specialists; a Japanese academic, and a Japanese kabuki and kyogen actor, Tanroh Ishida. Artistically, New Earth gave me sort of the thinking and tools to do that. And watching in the daytime, the children have never seen Shakespeare before, they’ve never seen East Asians on stage before, and they’ve never been to a theatre before. So for that to be the first experience for, you know, nearly one and a half thousand plus children, and to see all the letters and all the feedback come in was amazing, and it must be how other BESEA theatre makers must feel when they get that feedback. So that really set the stage.
And from that I applied to join Yellow Earth. And so working together with Philippe Cherbonnier, who was the co-artistic director and was the dramaturg and literary manager for Yellow Earth at the time, it was like, great, this is another adventure.
ROBIN KHOR
I would love to hear you elaborate a little bit about, have you witnessed any shift in the industry?
JONATHAN MAN
Well, there’s sort of two shifts, I think, you know, as co-artistic director for 2009 and 2010. One shift at the time, Yellow Earth commissioned non-British East and Southeast Asian writers. And understandably, people wonder whether, you know, when there were so few BESEA writers at the time, can they write for, you know, shows that can tour and attract audiences, and can BESEA writers write children’s work, etc.
At the time, they had a writing group called Yellow Ink and produced some really, really fine writers. And, you know, so you’ve got people who are very active today like Jeremy Tiang and Simon Wu. Jeremy’s done work in America, and which has been very well received. Simon’s written for radio dramas for the BBC and, you know, both of them are, you know, commissioned playwrights. They are a real success of Yellow Ink. But there’s also writers that I feel could have made a really great contribution to our industry. There’s Ben Yeo, there’s Andy Chang, and there’s Anna Chen and many others at Kazuko Hohki. And so I was able to champion some of them to be picked up by, say, the BBC, etc., for projects. But yeah, there was nervousness at all levels of Yellow Earth at the time. But I do feel really proud to be part of the movement that has shifted and allowed New Earth to now primarily commission and platform BESEA writers and companies, etc. But you can still choose your battles. So okay, that battle. Okay. You know, fine. If you want to commission non BESEA writers, fine. The company at all levels wants to do that. Fine.
So to shift the dial we had a predecessor of Twisted Roots was the Typhoon Festival. New writing festival. So we held that at Greenwich Theatre in 2009. And so the shift that I was able to do as a festival director was to programme diaspora stories. They absolutely exist. So the Typhoon Festivals are now twisted roots, etc. is so, so important. So New Earth is more than the touring show, which happens every eighteen months or whatever. So so much more. And I guess shifting the dial is what I chose to programme as well. The touring production 2009. It was a double bill. So Boom by Jean Tay that Philippe directed, and Wave by Sun Noh that I directed. We used the same cast to do a little rep, a chance to really, really stretch the muscles, acting muscles. And it was designed by Wai Ying Kwok. I remember with Wave, it’s a reimagination of the Medea myth. So it’s a modern Medea. In the audition, the actors are like, wow, wow, because it’s kind of like this frustration with our industry and seeing, as you know, it takes the Mickey out of Miss Saigon, that a lot of plays do, but doing a really, really, really absurdist way. If you’ve ever seen Korean films, they just change genre, they switch, they’re bright, they’re brash, and they can be heartbreaking. And Wave and Sun’s writing encapsulated all those different things. And to see Louise Mai Newbury do her really, really stunning Medea, to have these students from university at studying Greek drama and have people that societies that, you know, just go to lots of different Greek dramas, seek me out after the shows and go, wow, this is the most exciting and relevant, moving version of Medea. And I’m like, wow, you know, as a theatre maker and as an artistic director. It’s just, you know, that’s what you want to see, really.
And then the other change would be about the next generation. So currently it’s called New Earth Academy. At the time, there’s wording around Yellow Power movement. In America, the Yellow Power movement emulates the Black Power movement. So, you know, we had Yellow Ink and then we came up with the name Yellow Academy, which is then moved on to Yellow Earth Academy. When I met New Earth in the noughties, in that board meeting, Kumiko really, really wanted to have some sort of training for the next generation of BESEA theatre makers. But maybe just at the time there weren’t the resources. So that’s one of the first things as co-artistic director was, okay, let’s hear out what this idea is and then, okay, what do we call it? And then say, okay, let’s use the word academy, is the word I proposed. It’s lovely to see that word still today. It’s been important to understand it’s not about reinventing the wheel sometimes. I would say that New Earth doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It was wonderful yesterday to see the global majority theatre leaders and companies come together.
For the panel at Central. The panel is ”Beyond representation in theatre: New Earth, new strategies”. At the time, we had other companies really supporting each other from Talawa Theatre, Tamasha, Tara Arts, Kali Theatre and probably a whole load of others. But you know, I cannot emphasize how important it was and is for global majority leaders and makers to work with each other. So Talawa had a very established summer school program and had all the barriers that they had to do to try and get this, their training for the next generation of black theatre makers. An immense debt of gratitude to Pat Cumper and her team for sort of talking us through all that. But for New Earth Academy it was about, can we try? You know, there wasn’t funding from Arts Council England or other funders for anything like this. So I guess it was making the case within the board and other staff members and stakeholders of Yellow Earth to commission an academy and persuade the rest of the company. And they’re voicing things that are common at the time. There are very few East and Southeast Asian actors out there. There may not be any demand, any interest. Are these Chinese community centers and these Japanese and, you know, so objections were raised.
At that time, there were about nearly a thousand BESEA actors on Spotlight Directory. I’d avoid it for my production of Midsummer Night’s Dream. It was very, very oversubscribed for the roles. We had 200 plus East and Southeast Asian actors. I want to work for that. So I was very clear in my mind. Of course, there are British, East and Southeast Asian young people or actually people at any age that are interested in this. It was a really, really difficult, if I’m honest, to gather the people to help with this. But anyway, we’d actually come up with a plan and come up with a budget. I delegated someone to come up with the first draft budget, and in that budget, none of us were paid. I was like, oh my God, I was paid. I’m like, no, Kumiko you’re really, really hard working. We need, you need to be paid to deliver this. And we need to have money to engage workshop leaders and all that. So, you know, it was quite a big bump to pay everyone properly, etc.. Anyway, for the first academy, we did apply to an external funder to fund this to make the case. And we’re very, very, very lucky to get the money with lots of lead time, lots and lots of lead time.
As a cul de sac, I think theater makers, we need to understand there’s three things that affect the quality of a project. There’s the time, there’s the resource, and then there’s the scope slash quality. So, you know, if you want really good quality and you don’t have very much resources, you just need the time. So we had that time to bring on Mei Yung, who was a freelance marketing person who had done work for New Earth before. So she did that mapping, and Kumiko and I headed to all the different community centers and theatres, etc., and tested out the demand. And if you ask the community, instead of the wider theatre industry making assumptions, you just ask, are the people interested? Then you can get a real answer. It was almost shocking that New Earth is suddenly in touch and talking about this. It seemed like a crazy idea, but people were on board. From 2010 was the inaugural one that summer. The first one was at ALRA. But I also had conversations in twenty ten with Central School of Speech and Drama and also with RADA to sort of pave the way. But as I said, you know, things take time. So dropping those seeds in. So there’s a lot around New Earth Academy teaching me about relationships, isn’t it?
Of course, we can make the political case for BESEA representation and support, but it’s taking time to cultivate those relationships. And then the final thing I would want to say is that we need sort of advocates there. So I sort of pioneered a producer programme, Yellow Earth producer programme. And so teaching the basics of budgets, bringing people like Chris Smyrnios who runs Southwark Playhouse to come in and show British East and Southeast Asian theatre makers how to create a budget. And having this hosted at the Young Vic at the end, doing like a Dragon’s Den kind of, you know, you had people with influence listen to a whole other people that want to produce, want to be artistic directors, want to be leaders pitching to industry and being affirmed. Hearing the stories of almost everyone. Their parents didn’t want them to work in theatre. The themes of relationships, resources, and being told no by family, no by society. And that inner me that says no. But then, you know, New Earth, I think, offers a profound way from a no to a yes.
ROBIN KHOR
So before we finish, do you have any words to offer to people who sort of encounter New Earth Theatre for the first time?
JONATHAN MAN
So New Earth Theatre is more than a theatre. It’s a window into the lives, the hopes, the dreams, inspiration, the heartbreak and the trauma, the joy of British East and Southeast Asians. And their connections to East Asia and Southeast Asia and other diasporas around the world. And for me, it’s a privilege to have played some sort of role in allowing those stories and artists to come through. And shifting the direction to prioritise those artists and the stories that we want to tell. And I think people encountering New Earth for the first time, there will be different people encountering New Earth for the first time, for decision makers and funders and high net worth individuals and those with resources, open your heart to New Earth, open your heart, heart to what we’re doing with humanity, human beings, etc. and connect to us from that level before thinking is there a market for this work or is there an audience, etc.
Of course, we’re smart. We can have those conversations, but open your heart to us first. For British East and Southeast Asians first encountering New Earth, you’re in for a treat, guys and girls and everyone else. You’re in for an absolute treat to connect to something that will really entertain you, can connect to your parents generation, to those who are older, your children’s and your nephews and nieces generation. You’re in for a treat. You may not like everything you see from New Earth, but everything will be put together with thought, with passion, with strategic direction, and with that hunger for social change and for a better world underneath it, which is universal. Whatever race, creed, religion you are from. And what New Earth also offers is a connection to root culture. And seeing Ailin and the team really, really emphasise and reminds us of that conduit and that respect to the culture.
And also, New Earth tells spiritual stories too. So underlying our stories is a very, very different way of thinking from the black or white sin or grace, win or lose way that we have in the West. We really, really need to see hearts, minds, philosophies, spirituality that embraces all different people, that goes with the flow. That doesn’t say there’s a binary right or wrong or binary, but actually looks at nuance that, you know, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, Hinduism and other philosophies, etc. can bring and also be critical things like Confucianism that have really kindness there have also, you know, there’s things about patriarchy, etc. that New Earth does look at as well. So I would say to general theatre audiences, you’re in for a treat too. New Earth presents things that aren’t seen currently on our stages.
There’s lots of brilliant British, East and Southeast Asian companies now in the UK. New wave is part of this tapestry and seeing their work hopefully going on the mid-scale and the larger scale. And to general audiences, just understand that these stories you’re seeing are going to be now by British, East and Southeast Asian majority creative teams, really. And I think that’s really amazing. And for the young or not so young, British, East or Southeast Asian person out there that has seen the flyer or the Instagram post about either seeing a new Earth show or, you know, maybe applying for a New Earth Academy. Be bold. Take that jump. Book that ticket. Write that application. Because New Earth has changed lives. It’s changed my life. My life is infinitely richer for being part of the New Earth tapestry and the New Earth village.
ROBIN KHOR
What does it mean to be part of New Earth’s thirty year legacy?
JONATHAN MAN
What it means to be part of New Earth’s thirty year legacy is something that is really hard to put into words. Because New Earth has provided friendship, guidance, inspiration, spiritual connection, and light in the darkest of times, actually. And I think that being British East and Southeast Asian theatre makers, we all have really dark times, don’t we? When we’re not seen. When we’re actually abused, when society today is rejecting us and other people of color. And people that don’t fit into the mainstream.
So being part of New Earth’s legacy is actually embracing everything the dark, the light and putting it into our work, putting it into our stories, putting it into supporting the next generation. So I think being part of that legacy and hopefully part of the ongoing legacy and future has been a privilege and a joy and lots of laughs as well. And so, yeah, and I’m just infinitely grateful to be part of this ongoing legacy.