Date of Interview: 7 August 2025
Interviewer: Rimi Solloway
Interviewee: Diana Pao
RIMI SOLLOWAY
This is the New Earth Theatre Oral history project. So why don’t you just start it off and tell me what your relationship is with New Earth Theatre?
DIANA PAO
Well, it was called Yellow Earth Theatre when I joined them. And the reason I joined them was because Veronica Needa was my friend, who was one of the founders of the
company. She just rang me out of the blue one day to see whether I would consider or be interested in joining Yellow Earth to be their first administrator.
At that time, I was working at the Arts Council actually, and funnily enough, I was thinking about going to find something else to do when she rang me. So I said, okay, I’ll think about it. Let’s meet and I’ll find out what it is all about. That’s how I joined them.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
What were you doing at the Arts Council?
DIANA PAO
I was working in the theatre department as one of the administrators I think. I can’t even remember what my job title was. I just thought to understand the theatre scene a bit more, to be actually working in the field would be more helpful. And also because Veronica rang me, just at the right time I think. So that’s how it happened.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
It’s always about timing, isn’t it?
DIANA PAO
Yes it is.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
So tell me, what were your first impressions when you joined New Earth Theatre? Or Yellow Earth Theatre at that time?
DIANA PAO
Well, I was the only one in the office all the time. I was aware of that when I joined them. I was aware that it’s all up to the five founding members and also maybe part time administration help to keep the company running.
And obviously, I feel that it is a good opportunity because, putting representation aside, I think arts is all about having more participation from all cultures, not just people who were born here, but people who live here, who have an arts background, have an interest in the arts. And it’s not limited to drama, but obviously I’m more interested in drama.
So, I just thought it is an interesting thing that I should be part of, that I would be happy to explore.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Can I hear a bit more about what made you interested in drama, and also what you were doing in that field at the time in London or in England?
DIANA PAO
Well, my interest in drama, I guess, stemmed from the fact that my father was an actor and director. So, I have been going to the theatre ever since I was four years old. So I’ve been going to the theatre all my life, basically. And for my family it is just like entertainment, you know, weekend or not even weekend. Any time. So I think the interest stemmed from that. For me, I was a trained stage manager. That was also because I wanted to find out what goes on behind the scene. Just out of curiosity. And so that’s why I was doing mainly backstage work. I’m not an actress. I don’t think I can do that, but I’m just interested in going to the theatre and interested in drama.
And I studied English in university, so drama was also one of the subjects. So that’s how it all started. I was actually working in the theatre in Hong Kong most of the time, and I moved over here in 1996, and that’s how I started my contact with the performing arts field in the UK. One thing led to another and that’s how I ended up in Yellow Earth.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
So you said your father was an actor. Do you think that anyone would know him? What’s his name?
DIANA PAO
His name is Pao Han Lin. Obviously, in Chinese the surname goes first. I think some people will know him.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
He was not acting in Britain, he was acting in Hong Kong?
DIANA PAO
He had also appeared in films. He was in “The Year of the Dragon” and he was in quite a lot of Hong Kong movies. He was also in, I think it was Channel Four’s series, “Fragile Heart “with Nigel Hawthorn.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
So tell me more about your move from Hong Kong and then how you discovered Yellow Earth. And like how that relationship developed, because that’s pretty interesting.
DIANA PAO
I moved over from Hong Kong just before the handover and it’s a family decision.
I mean, we just wanted to go somewhere else and explore opportunities elsewhere. And because I had studied in the UK before, so I just somehow feel, okay, I’ll go to London rather than, you know, try and go to America or Canada. So, that’s how I ended up here. And my relationship with Yellow Earth really started with Veronica.
Before I knew about their work, I knew Veronica. I worked with her in Hong Kong. That’s how it all started.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Tell me about Veronica. So who was she in Yellow Earth Theatre legacy?
DIANA PAO
She was one of the founding members of Yellow Earth Theatre. There were five of them. Veronica was one of them.
But before I came, obviously I hadn’t seen any of their work in this country. She told me about it. I can’t remember whether I actually saw any of their productions before I joined them, but I heard about Yellow Earth from her. With everything she did, Veronica put her heart into it. She was very keen. She was always promoting whatever she was doing.
And of course, Yellow Earth was one of the things she was doing. So this was how I heard about it.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
And what were the other things that Veronica was doing? And were you involved with the other things as well?
DIANA PAO
Oh, she did a lot of things. She was quite interested in community projects.
I can’t remember which year she actually started running her own company, True Heart. But she had been involved in playback theatre for many, many years and she was really, really keen on that. That’s where she devoted all her energy. But I think when she was with Yellow Earth, there’s not so much of the other stuff occupying her life.
Obviously for all of the founding members, they also needed to do something else apart from Yellow Earth’s own work until we got funding from London Arts for three years.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
So you joined after they started for a few years?
DIANA PAO
I don’t know when exactly they started.
I joined in 2001.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
What were the productions like that you saw when you joined them?
DIANA PAO
Well, the first one when I joined them, I think the one they were working on was Rashomon. And that was at Riverside Studios. And so I was working on that. They started rehearsing already, and I picked it up and worked on it.
So that was the first production I saw, and I thought, oh, that’s interesting. Rashomon. I think they have got a distinctive style, which in every production I think they tried to integrate some sort of physical theatre technique into it. Not necessarily every part of it, but that’s very much the style, physical theatre. And they also tried to take a very simple, direct approach to the text and not relying on high tech, you know, projection or moving lights or whatever.
So it’s a different style.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Do you think the audiences at the time also recognised the style that they were doing?
DIANA PAO
Not necessarily. I think they would appreciate seeing something different. It’s just that because in London you can see a show any time of the year and there’s so many shows on offer, but to have a group of East Asian actors doing something different, for example, with something as famous as Rashomon, a lot of people know the story, know the film, they’ll be interested to find out how this company actually, interpret that.
I think from that perspective, people are interested in their work, not necessarily because this is physical theatre that I want to see. I mean, it’s just that it’s something different, something that maybe is of interest to just to find out what it is all about.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
When Rashomon was on, what was your role in it? What were you doing around the side?
DIANA PAO
Oh, I was already their General Manager for them. That’s soon after I started the job.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Well, what were your duties and responsibilities?
DIANA PAO
Liaise with the venue about, you know, marketing and everything. Basically, I think they had already done the contracts because they had already started. I just picked up the rest to make sure we launched the show successfully, smoothly; liaised with the whole production team and making sure that everything’s all right.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Do you have any memories of standout moments from the Rashomon experience or like any other shows? But as we’re talking about the Rashomon one.
DIANA PAO
Oh, Rashomon. A scary moment. Yes. Because I discovered that.. I hope I remember it right, but I discovered that we actually didn’t have the performing rights for the show while we were rehearsing! And I asked David what was going on and why. We can’t do this show. And as it happened, he sent a letter to either the widow of the playwright or something. Never got a response.
So it’s just, you know, they just went ahead without that permission. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, we have to get permission. You know, we can be sued for this. So I said, okay, who did you write to? We have to send another letter by registered post. And we have to do this one more time. We have to get some sort of permission.
So we sent that letter and you know, we were just on tenterhooks and we’re hoping that we’ll get a response because all the publicity was out and all that. So, and then, maybe before the publicity, I don’t know, I can’t remember now. Finally we got a response.
I think I got a phone call from the son of the widow, and, he said, because it’s by registered post, airmail, and his mother couldn’t actually read English, so he had to respond on her behalf. And I explained the situation to him and he gave us the permission so that was a huge sigh of relief. But I said, I still need something in writing. So he very kindly, I can’t remember whether it was by fax or by express letter or anything, but we got the rights.
And so we actually opened the show legally.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Oh my God, Diana, you saved the whole show. You saved the whole thing.
DIANA PAO
That was by chance I realised that, you know, I had to go through the files. I think that’s one of the things that an arts administrator has to do. You have to make sure you have got the rights before you can do a play like that.
You cannot just say, I haven’t got a response. I have written the letter, but they haven’t responded. So let’s go ahead. We cannot do things like that. Thankfully the son actually noticed that. Or, rather the mother because of that registered letter landing in her lap. She was thinking that it must be something important. So she had to find her son to give us a call and find out what was going on.
So we were lucky. Actually, we were lucky otherwise, I cannot imagine because, you know, Rashomon is not unknown. You know, it could be picked up by anybody who could say: have you guys actually got the rights ? Or somebody might know the family and said : oh do you know that it’s on in London?
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Do you have any other shows that you liked working on or any other good memories from working with Yellow Earth?
DIANA PAO
High point, I would say is Typhoon, the East Asian play reading festival. It was, I would say I
I really enjoyed working on that. Of course, finding funding is always difficult, but at least because for that particular reading festival, we had established a lot of good relationships, not only with Soho Theatre, the venue where we were doing this, the readings, but also with other actors, directors whom we would not be working with normally on a tour.
So it’s that element of getting different people to work with the company from all backgrounds, all cultures, not just East Asian. And that is the experience that I think is very meaningful for the company and for the whole sector, because that’s the integration that we needed.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
So I thought Typhoon worked with East Asian dramatists, but who were the kinds of people that were involved in the script reading and the writing?
DIANA PAO
We have got the French writer Philippe Cherbonnier. I think he was one of the directors working on that. And Philippe was actually very active in, you know, working with Yellow Earth. He’s French. And we have obviously a lot of East Asian actors for Typhoon. So we have, you know, we have selected scripts from Japan, Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, Singapore and the USA.
So we were featuring different plays from a lot of different countries just for seven days. It’s six days, seven readings I think. We did have a very good response. We had full houses for all the readings and people really enjoyed seeing that because they were rehearsed readings, so you had something to look at. Not just people sitting there reading.
They enjoyed that, the format, the interaction with the cast and the director. And if we had the playwright there. I don’t think a lot of the playwrights were there, you know, to talk with them about the whole experience. So that also introduced the company to the general audience and also made their work more visible, made their mission, what they were trying to do in the theatre sector, more clear to everyone.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
I think it sounds really good.
DIANA PAO
It was good. I think for me that was a high point. And in terms of feeling that I’m really part of the company, it’s when I toured with them to Copenhagen.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Oh wow.
DIANA PAO
That’s when we toured The Butcher’s Skin, because that was the first time I was actually with the whole company all the time.
Normally I’m just by myself, you know, in the office all day long. And if somebody pops in, then, you know, I have some company, but normally it’s about work, you know. And, so that was the first time that the whole company was on tour, including me, that is.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
What was it like being on tour with the whole company?
DIANA PAO
Because I was the one who organised the tour, I had to liaise with the venue and, you know, go and see the people I’ve been emailing with and contacting and making sure that the get in was smooth and the designers got what they wanted, making sure that everybody was okay. And, in a way, all the marketing, the logistics and so on, so huge responsibility beforehand and afterwards. You know, when you have all the paperwork to deal with afterwards and all that, but just being there, actually seeing the show, how it got into the space, and how the audience responded and in a different country, that was a good experience.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Do you have any stories from on tour with Yellow Theatre?
DIANA PAO
Well nothing very dramatic, actually. That’s nice. So it was good, I think, because the space itself, I think there was, well, quite a few pillars in our way, you know, of the set. But we were all aware of that when they sent us the ground plan. So it just took a bit of adjusting and so on. It always happened, the technical stuff, but nothing too dramatic that got in the way of the show.
So I think all in all, everybody enjoyed that tour.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
If you could leave a message to someone discovering New Earth Theatre for the first time, what would you say?
DIANA PAO
I would say leave any sort of preconceptions you have about East Asian or black theatre or whatever, anything that you have never seen before. Just leave any preconceptions behind and just experience what this group of people are doing and see what you can discover.
Because I think that’s the way to encourage more people to find out how artists from different cultures can contribute to the UK performing arts scene.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Has anything in your life changed or been affected or influenced by your work with New Earth Theatre?
DIANA PAO
Well, I guess the main thing is, much as I enjoyed organising a tour and working with all the venues that we have been in touch with and so on, the one thing that affected me really a lot is working on my own all the time, because I’m always the only one in the office. So towards the end, I didn’t enjoy working on my own anymore. I want to be working in an environment with more people. I want more contact with people. And that’s the reason I left, because it’s just, now I think they have more people, you know, they, they can afford to have more staff, but back in those days, I was the only full time staff and the only one always there.
So just being a one woman band is not fun.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Where was your office? Where were you going every day?
DIANA PAO
Diorama Arts Centre, near Great Portland Street tube station.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
I guess maybe that’s where the New Diorama Theatre is now.
DIANA PAO
Yeah, yeah, that’s where it is. The office I had was a desk in a corner of a big room. There were four companies there.
We were each occupying one corner.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Were all the other companies, one people, one person bands?
DIANA PAO
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, there was a Spanish lady. In fact, I’m still in touch with her. She runs her own company, and she does a lot of other things such as workshops and so on. But she comes in now and then, so I actually saw her more than anyone else in the building.
And then there was another collective of actors, and they have their own sort of, I don’t know whether they call it an agency, but they have their own office there. And they always come in to have meetings. And then there was an artist occupying the other bit, the other corner. It’s just that they don’t come in every day and I’m normally the one who’s there all the time.
So I of course with our own Yellow Earth founders, they also pop in for meetings and so on. Of course, people come in. But as the days went on, I just thought, oh, no, I just don’t enjoy this environment anymore. You know, I want more contact with people every day.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
How many years did you work for Yellow Earth?
DIANA PAO
Two years and a bit, I think, yeah.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
What did you move on to do next?
DIANA PAO
Interestingly, I went back to the Arts Council. When I was at the Arts Council previously, they were not one of the portfolio companies yet, but when I went back, they already got the three year funding and they are still on the portfolio.
So I suppose you could say I was looking after them from the other side of the fence.
RIMI SOLLOWAY
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That’s great. Have you got anything else that you’d like to share with the theatre team?
DIANA PAO
No, I think just to say keep up the good work.