Date of Interview: 13 August 2025
Interviewer: Robin Khor
Interviewee: Ruth Chan
ROBIN KHOR
Ruth, so why don’t you just start by telling us, so this is the 30th anniversary of New Earth. Can you just tell us your first encounter with Yellow Earth? What was your first collaboration with New Earth.
RUTH CHAN
In the early ‘10s, trying to think whether that was 2011 or ‘12 or when I was invited to do a show for Yellow Earth Theatre. At the time that was directed by Jonathan Man, who was the artistic director then.
Unfortunately, that project or that particular show never went ahead. So yeah, I can’t actually remember the date of it. It was for a project called Metropolis East, and from that I guess I stayed in their creative list, crew list. And eventually I got us back again when Kumiko was the artistic director to do The Last Days of Limehouse, I think it is called, which was performed and set in Limehouse Town Hall, which was really fascinating. I really love that project.
ROBIN KHOR
The Last Days of a Limehouse. Yes, it is 2014. So what was your first impression of the company at the time?
RUTH CHAN
It was still, I tried to think how old it was at that particular point. It felt like it was still quite a young company, but obviously at that point it was starting to grow.
So it was a mixture of like probably the first British East Asian theatre, I think that existed, which was great. But also like I think people were like, not working on more fringe level, but more like the gatekeeping that we had just meant, you know, whatever we did, the production, it was never going to be like, I don’t know, Royal Exchange or National Theatre because, you know, we’re dealing with people who were all sort of pretty much excluded from the mainstream at the time.
So it was almost like we’re trying to make this our home and trying to make every production we’re doing work and expose the fact that, you know, we exist. But I really loved that project. It was quite fringy. It was on site as well before immersive theater got trendy, way before it got trendy. You know, the audience had to move around.
It wasn’t a sit down show at all. They had to move around the stage, and the whole room was the stage, and they really wanted to use a space, which I think was Limehouse Townhall. I don’t know if it still exists or whether whatever happened to it, but it was like a historical venue for when sort of a lot of British Chinese people were there in the early 20s. And the whole play was about the end of that sort of area, I guess in the 50s, when they decided to knock everything down and make them into new flats.
So this community obviously had to move all the way to Chinese Chinatown and had to move to Soho. But at that time, it’s just really great to just see a part of history that, you know, I don’t even know or predates, sort of like when my family were like in the UK. So it was really fascinating. My grandfather first came to the UK via Liverpool. So like quite standard at that point in the 50s and 60s.
Obviously Limehouse was there way before then, with different sorts of routes of immigration, but it’s just really nice to feel connected to your own sort of background and history.
ROBIN KHOR
Prior to that project have you experienced any other projects that have such East Asian link to you in that deep level, or was that kind of like your first?
RUTH CHAN
It was probably my first encounter. I’ve seen shows before in the noughties that, to be frank, were made by white people on a white gaze. And so that’s why we spent so long fighting against all this and having that representation, because for a long time we weren’t allowed to tell our own stories.
ROBIN KHOR
Has that project and have shaped your career or like, shaped how you work after that?
RUTH CHAN
I think it was a real taster. I wouldn’t say it’s my whole career, but it was probably the first time I really felt included in an East Asian sort of theatre community. It was quite small at that time. It’s obviously grown a lot bigger since then, but we’re all in the same boat at the end of the day and it felt really nice and kind of safe, I guess. To have people around you in that similar barriers and but also almost like a community where we all sort of support each other to fight against all this.
I really enjoyed it. And yeah. It was the first time I felt like there was some kind of East Asian, there were pockets of it before, but that was probably that production felt like, oh yes, we can work together. You know, we don’t have to fight against each other to pick pockets of crumbs like we have been for so long. Before then, well, I worked in sort of film and TV, and I was always the only Asian person, probably the only female as well, which was hugely depressing at the time. And you just go, how do I get to fit in? And I think with New Earth Theatre or Yellow Earth Theatre back then, it’s like, wow, we are fitting in. This is us. Like we’re not ashamed to be what we are.
Yeah, it was just nice to connect with other actors and crew. And that’s the first time I worked with Kumiko as well. And she, you know, she was so welcoming. And I think a huge part of her ethos was trying to bring everyone together in her own way.
ROBIN KHOR
And do you have a fondest memory or like what was the most ridiculous memory, anything that’s personal that you remember?
RUTH CHAN
It was just when I was working later for (Mountains:) The Dreams of Lily Kwok and I were talking to my uncle who lives in Manchester. I was talking about the show. He doesn’t like watching, he only likes to watch big musicals like Lion King and he was not interested.
But I was talking about Lily Kwok and he was like, oh yeah, I knew her. I was like what? So that was really weird, like, all through rehearsals because I was there obviously for some of the rehearsals in Manchester and having to meet him, for him to bring me Chinese food as, as every Chinese family member has to do.
Yeah. He was just like, oh yeah, I used to go to her video shop. She had a voice louder than, like you can always hear her like 50 meters away. And I was like, this is so weird. I’m doing a show about her. So for me, that was really like, oh, right, this is what, again, this is what New Earth Theatre is creating.
ROBIN KHOR
Was there a moment that when you were involved with Yellow Earth or New Earth Theatre, that I feel like this is a family now?
RUTH CHAN
I guess it’s hard to say. Because it’s like, with theatre isn’t it? Like you as a freelancer, you just do the project. And obviously for me it was working on that project and then still staying connected with the rest of the New Earth Theatre team, such as Kumiko,. You know, we see each other at random events and random, you know, not necessarily New Earth events, but, you know, other people’s shows, you know, East Asian shows that we’re also trying to support. That to me feels like that’s where it comes together.
ROBIN KHOR
What challenges have you faced as a BESEA artist in the UK theatre landscape, and how has New Earth supported or responded with those challenges?
RUTH CHAN
I mean, obviously I’m one of, I don’t know, I’m not as old as some of them, but I am one of those people that have been in the industry since the noughties, so mainly in film and television early on. But moving, partly moving to theatre, because you feel like there’s more of a family for you and a place for you. And I think New Earth has certainly helped with that.
For me, it’s definitely just seeing more exposure of shows. East Asian led shows and obviously with New Earth Theatre that’s the primary aim. You’d be surprised how many very early companies that were out there claimed to be helping East Asians, but are actually commissioning white writers or whatever it is, and you’re just like, well, that’s not really about us then is it?
Or their idea is bringing stuff overseas from China. And we’re like, well, no, actually we exist as well. We might look Chinese, but we’re not, you know what I mean, we’re not from China. So we do exist in our own form. And I think that’s something New Earth has been very supportive about.
And I’m not just talking Chinese, I’m talking obviously about the rest of East and Southeast Asia sort of heritage, and we all do exist. But, you know, where is our place in the UK? It’s always been quite difficult to explain and from The Last Days of Limehouse, I’ve got a lot more East Asian work which may or may not be a good thing. You worry about being typecast and doing anything ethnically East Asian, but at the same time you do feel like, well, some of these shows wouldn’t feel right to get non East Asians on these shows.
So it kind of works both ways. And to be honest, I did thank Kumiko a long time ago. It was through the fact that people like Kakilang at the time and New Earth Theatre gave me work when no one else would, that eventually led to what was my first gig with the RSC, Royal Shakespeare Company, which I’ve been wanting to work for for a long time.
And, it was so hard to convince them that I was a good enough artist. But then came the show. Snow Midsummer. And they were like, oh, we should get someone East Asian to work on this. And it’s like, yes, please. And I can do lots of East Asian music as well as anything else in between.
Yeah. So, I would say getting that kind of work from East Asian theatres and then I guess for someone like the RSC to have the confidence to go, well, she can do it. So, you know, I have a lot to thank. Let’s just say, for the earlier stage of my career, obviously things have evolved since then. So I don’t just do East Asian work.
I was also doing what was it with, as I said, Kakilang that I was doing Picadilly Revisited, which also got me interested, I think, along with the Limehouse project and sort of looking more into my roots on a musical journey. And so a lot more about, you know, East Asian folk music, mostly Chinese folk music, because of the projects I was getting, but I was also asked to look at things like Japanese music.
So musically, yeah, I actually quite enjoyed going into my East Asian roots. But then I got a little bit scared, that was like, is that what all I’ll ever get asked to do. So yeah, so I’m sure it’s projects like yeah New Earth Theatre, and then I did (Mountains:) Dreams of Lily Kwok which was sort of using more modern East Asian music mixed with theatre in the UK. That combination probably helped me get stuff like something with the BFI. Yeah. So that one was like lots of old footage of China, and I was like, I can do a contemporary version of that. So it’s through marrying all the different influences I’ve had. And I think I have to acknowledge that East Asian music and theatre has been part of it.
ROBIN KHOR
Would just say all these sorts of development and expansion of your career wouldn’t happen without New Earth Theatre?
RUTH CHAN
Yeah, exactly. They were the ones out there, as I said, giving me this kind of work at that particular time in my career.
ROBIN KHOR
Before we end, can you just share a little bit now that we know that New Earth is celebrating its 30th anniversary like, what does it mean to you to be part of this 30 year legacy?
RUTH CHAN
Well, I never realised it was that old, which is slightly terrifying. And the fact it makes me feel a little old as well. But yeah, I think it’s, it’s really joyous to firstly, that it’s still here. We haven’t been vanquished. So that’s, that’s a very important thing, that to me, it’s like we’re still going. Things could progress better than it has, let’s just say, and it is getting there. But I feel like what this shows is that we’re still going. We’re still going to get there. We’re still going to get the right representation. We’re still going to try and create great theatre for East Asians. That’s not going to stop. And I’m glad that they still have funding and, you know, all kinds of stuff, some support to keep going, which is in this current climate, a miracle, to be frank.
So that’s, you know, and that’s quite joyous to me. To find out that, yeah, 30 years, we’re still here. And for me, it’s definitely a little bit nostalgic. I mean, things are so different now to when I was, you know, when I was working them like 2000, whatever it was. Yeah. ‘12, ‘14, you know, just over ten years ago.
It’s weird looking back. I’m always now trying to look forward. I think there’s no point sort of dwelling on what it was like then, because representation was pretty dire.
ROBIN KHOR
And, so what do you hope that the future audience would take away from projects run by New Earth?
RUTH CHAN
I guess that we can. Right? It sounds really silly, but we can do great work. It’s so frustrating. Like we’re always trying to prove to everyone, but we’re as good as the white peers, let’s just say. And most of us, we’ve had to be better than our white peers to get to where we are. And I really hope the audience will firstly appreciate that, but also see that what great talent from our demographic exists, you know, especially with casting at the moment, that could be seriously improved on the East Southeast Asian side because we need to be visible. If we’re not visible, then how do people know what we’re like?
And I think New Earth is doing a good job of just keeping going with that. And it’s just a big fight, right? It’s really difficult. Like I think there’s always going to be that mish mash of who you are exactly if you come from overseas, East Asia. So in my case, I was born in the UK and I never quite truly know if I’m truly Chinese or truly British or both or neither.
And I guess in the past, a lot of the time I went, oh, we want some exotic East Asian stuff. We bring this work from China or Japan and that’s all great. But then there’s all these stories missing of what it’s like to be British East Asian, you know, of people who were born here. And obviously that also includes people who come over and decide to live here.
That’s also, you know, a different story. And there’s so much out there. And it’s obviously frustrating when for a long time people didn’t think those stories were relevant. Whereas that was quite different at other parts of the global majority sort of theatre, you know, obviously the black theatre has been going on for longer. So it’s almost like it’s integrated quite well whereas we’re still fighting to go, our stories matter, they’re not boring. They’re actually really good. And our experiences are just as valid as anyone else’s.