Date of Interview: 18 July 2025
Interviewer: Shirley Jamil
Interviewee: Helen Tse
SHIRLEY JAMIL
Hi, Helen. Thank you for agreeing to come along and chat to us about your journey with us. If you just want to introduce yourself, tell us what your connection to New Earth, Yellow Earth is, please.
HELEN TSE
My name is Helen Tse. I am the co-owner of a restaurant called Sweet Mandarin in Manchester, and I’m also the author of the book, also called Sweet Mandarin, which was an autobiography about my grandmother, my mother and myself, and our journey from China to Hong Kong to Manchester and how food has been prevalent in our lives and pulled each generation through.
And that book was published by Random House in 2007. Really, it’s thanks to that book that I got to know New Earth, which was historically called Yellow Earth. The lady is called Kumiko Mendl. So my first experience with Yellow Earth was when Kumiko emailed me to say that we’re doing a show called Dim Sum Nights in Manchester, and they were looking for a venue.
They wanted to do the show in a restaurant, and make it interactive with the customers and the viewers, where people are eating dim sum as well as watching Dim Sum Nights. And I loved the idea. I thought that was amazing. I’d love to be part of it and have not really seen any theatre with Chinese people in it before.
So I was very, very excited to work with Kumiko on the idea. All we did really was provide the stage and the food. You know, the scripts, the actors, the props. The whole experience was done by Yellow Earth. We take no credit for that, but we were fascinated with watching it every night. Our customers were really amazed because they had never seen anything like this before.
And we got to know Kumiko really well, and the actors and the actresses. We’ve kept in touch ever since. So that was around the 2005 time when Dim Sum Nights was done. So when my book came out in 2007, I said to Kumiko, I’d love you to think about my book for a play, because when you did Dim Sum Nights, I could see my grandmother being played by Tina Chiang.
I thought she would be as good as my grandmother because of her mannerisms. It was in the restaurant, you know, it really felt very alive to me and I thought, wow, this is the right home for my book. So I’m really pleased to say that Kumiko did commission Sweet Mandarin as a play. And so we got a lady call in Sook Chappell to write the play.
That was quite a big play that ran in the Royal Exchange Theatre in Manchester, The Crucible in Sheffield. It ran in London. It went to about 10 or 11 different places. It was an amazing adaptation of the book. They called it Mountains, and the reason why they call it Mountains was because the opening of the book talks about Chinese proverbs, and it says that, you know, this is a mountain that is so difficult to level, but actually we don’t look at this generation, but we looked at future generations and if each generation levels a bit of that mountain by the later generations, there’s a road through those mountains.
And I guess that’s metaphoric for my family as well, because we’ve had to deal with quite a lot of difficulties. We’ve had to overcome the murder of my great grandfather in Guangzhou, China. When he was bringing over the family to Hong Kong, he was murdered by rival soy sauce merchants who couldn’t stand the fact that he’d done well after some very humble beginnings initially as a farmer.
Then in Hong Kong, where my grandmother was brought up, she was thrust from being a merchant’s daughter who was middle class, as it were, back down to utter poverty. So they had to fend for themselves in capitalist Hong Kong.
And in those days, it was a colony of the UK. So she ended up working as a maid to some of the most powerful British families out there. And she worked for one family in particular, called the Woodmans, who Mr. Woodman looked after all the gas systems in Hong Kong, and she learned to cook for them, clean, brought up the children.
And it was really thanks to them that our family’s journey then moved to the UK. So she moved to the UK with them because Mr. Woodman wanted to come home. So that’s how we kind of called ourselves to the UK. And the really weird thing is, master servant relationships in those days very rarely transcended the boundary of friendship.
You know, there was no kind of friendship at all. But what happened is Mrs. Woodman, who my grandmother came back to the UK to look after, died. And this is why she left a lump sum of money from her grandmother and her wealth and that was amazing. And so my grandmother used that money to open one of the first Chinese restaurants in Manchester, even before Chinatown.
So her restaurant is called Lung Fung. It was in Middleton. It opened in 1959. She opened to a very working class, very white population. She was very anti-Japanese. It was like post World War 2. And initially they thought that my grandmother was also Japanese and thought that she’s going to poison their food. So everybody boycotted the restaurants, and it was really a hard time.
So my grandmother had to hire a local lady, called Mavis, who knew everybody, and brought them over to my grandmother’s to try the food and to inject trust. And that’s how we started off in this family business of restaurants. So I am now the third generation of women restaurateurs and my restaurant is called Sweet Mandarin. So I had written with my twin sister, Lisa, a cookbook of our recipes and the stories behind them.
So I’d written about Lily Kwok’s curry, my grandmother’s called Lily and how this curry was created from that journey from Hong Kong to the UK, on the SS Canton, because they would stop at different harbours. For example, Singapore, where she picked up the coconut base of the laksa. India, spices. And by the time she came to the UK, she’d already created her own curry and that’s what she sold at the restaurant. And we still sell that today in Sweet Mandarin.
Another dish was Mabel’s claypot chicken. So when my grandmother came to the UK, she came without her children. So she’d left her children with her mum to look after the Woodmans. But she did promise my mum that when she got enough money, she would bring her over.
By the age of nine, my mum came over and she wasn’t happy with her mum. She didn’t know her. It’s like two strangers. Also she didn’t like the UK. It was raining. The food was quite, very bland. She was being picked on at school and it was this dish, the claypot chicken, which is my mom’s favorite dish that my grandmother made for her.
And that helped to bond mother and daughter and then bring her back into the fold, as it were. So we had all these recipes and stories behind the food. We had presented that to my friend who’s a literary agent. And she that to Random House and they said, no, no, we don’t want the cookbook, but we want the story.
And I was like, nah, I’m not really interested in doing the story thanks, I want to do the cookbook. Then my friend told me she said, you’re stupid. You know, this is a great opportunity. And then she did say one thing, she said, you’d actually be the first ever British born Chinese author. No one else has written about that story. No one has told the journey of immigrants from China to Hong Kong to the UK, which 90% of Cantonese people did that route. Then she went through, all the people like, you know, Jung Chang, Wild Swans is China, and Amy Tan is American. So we went through, I thought, oh yeah, this is really bad that nobody’s representing our community, you know? From a British born Chinese perspective, because we are really quite unique.
And that’s what made me agree to write it. Not that I wanted to write about the family story, but I did. But I’m not a writer. So I don’t really, I’ve never written like this before. So every day when I went to go see my grandma and take her shopping at the local Chinese supermarket, called Chee Yip in Green Gate, we used to talk about her history. And every shopping trip, she’d tell me a little story about what happened.
And that’s how we pieced together this family story. And it was quite fascinating because it’s written over 100 years, and our story is just a little thread over the tapestry of time, you know? So it’s a big story. It covers China, Hong Kong, and the UK. When I was talking to Kumiko, we didn’t know how we’re going to do this because it’s so big. What bit do we agree to do? What bit do we not agree to do? And there’s a time limit as well, you know, I mean it’s not Netflix. And she did an amazing job with the book. You know what, I saw it, I was in tears because it was so moving to see what she had pulled out of the book, how she had told our family story.
She told it very sensitively because of the difficult situations, but she made it very interesting, you know, there was like music. There was dance. There was like people cooking, you know, it made it alive, basically. And so, you know, Yellow Earth Theatre, I’ve got a lot of time for it because of what they’ve done for my family.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
They got you closer as well to your grandmother as well speaking to her?.
HELEN TSE
Yeah, definitely. It was really quite unique. And, you know, not in a million years would you think that someone would do a play about your family story. But not just do a you know, mediocre play, this was like top of the range, you know, absolutely brilliant.
I was like, this should go to Broadway. It’s so good. And so when I met the actors and actresses of Yellow Earth, which is the history of New Earth, you know, they’re so passionate about their trade. These youngsters are so, so talented.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
So now I ask you, I don’t know about you, but you say, you’re not a writer and you’ve never written before,
HELEN TSE
No.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
Did your mum and dad ever encourage you to write?
HELEN TSE
No, no, I mean, I’m the first to go to university in my family. Well, I did study law, so I guess that is the written form type of degree. But to be honest with you, law is very analytical and quite boring in the way it’s drafted.
So when I first wrote the manuscript, Random House said, look, you’re not a writer, we know that. Why don’t you give me half of the manuscript first when you get halfway and we’ll see how it goes. We’ll see if we can give you any pointers. And when I did that, they said it couldn’t be printed. Nobody would read that book because of the way I’d written it. So they said, look, you did it too analytical, too theoretical, too historical.
They said, what you need to do is put your voice into it. Then I changed the opening line to be: In 1918, my grandmother Lily Kwok was born in China. She kicked so hard. The midwife thought she was going to be in body, and that strength and energy had stayed with her all their lives. And in short, her story is my story, and it’s the story of Sweet Mandarin. And just by giving me that pointer, it pivoted the book. It gave the voice that then Kumiko and her team could pick up on and personify, as it were.
So, yeah, I mean, so it’s amazing what they’ve done. I really find it very admirable that they always reach out to people who want to act, because really, there’s not many Chinese people in the UK that have been taught how you can do acting and writing and, you know, theatre. You know what they told us? Yeah,
SHIRLEY JAMIL
So during the production how involved were you and your sister in the production?
HELEN TSE
Not at all really. I mean, we totally deferred to the experts. Like I said, we’re not creative, artistic people.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
Don’t say that. This is what I say but you are. You are creative. You are artistic. And we have to believe this. You’ve written the book. And it’s gone worldwide. You are a creative.
HELEN TSE
I guess, well, look for I mean, that book, I don’t know how it came about us.
It went out to 33 countries, which was crazy. It got translated into Mandarin, simplified Chinese. About four years ago. And then they made this play in Hong Kong in Cantonese, which is now gone to Toronto last week. You know, the story lives on, I guess, you know, but I have nothing to do with it. I just get told oh it’s on.
Well me aunty she’s in Toronto, one of the aunties on my dad’s side. She called me and said, Do you have a play going on in Toronto? No, no, it’s not me. Well it’s called Sweet Mandarin. Well I totally forgot because they had told me it’s going across because I’m not there. It feels very remote but with, you know, yYellow Earth I got to meet the actors. They showed me the uniforms and the kind of things they’re wearing and all the props they’re making.
So, you know, I was, like, fascinated. But I had nothing to do with them, you know, they were just, they’re brilliant. You know, I could not do anything more to the what’s about any voice they call the voice down.
They got it better than me, you know, they read the book and interpreted it so well. Sometimes I don’t see that aspect that they pulled out. You know, I’m saying they really go to the heart of the story and they got the voice. That’s the thing. They are so good at that. So I totally deferred it all to Kumiko and said, you guys do it.
I could read it, I think, yeah it’s good. But I have no sway in it, you know, you guys already sorted it all out. So it was very easy for me. I just enjoyed it.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
Can I ask, did your mother and grandmother get to see the play or read the book? Well they didn’t need to read the book because they knew about it.
HELEN TSE
Yeah my mum was with me when we went to meet the actors and look at their work. So yeah my mum’s seen it. My grandmother, unfortunately, passed away before the play happened. But she did get to see Sweet Mandarin be opened.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
And did she approve of the curry, her curry you made?
HELEN TSE
Oh yeah otherwise it can’t be sold if she doesn’t approve of it. So thankfully we got the recipe right. I mean, you know, she did actually shadow us in the kitchen a few times whilst we were making it. That’s how protective she is of her recipes, you know?
SHIRLEY JAMI
You know what? I’m so pleased I got to speak to you and hear your story because I can relate to a lot of it. Yeah that’s wonderful anyway. Is there anything else you would like to add and are you going to write any more or…Come on you go do it.
HELEN TSE
I was signed for two books with Random House, so they wanted me to write another one that I haven’t actually delivered yet.
I think life has got in the way. And also, I guess I think when my grandmother died, I kind of, the pen was put down, you know?
But there is a story. She was one of six girls and while Sweet Mandarin is geographical and generational, across a hundred years, if I look at the story of the six girls, it’s all one generation and it looks at different countries that they all emigrated to and how the Chinese diaspora are looked at in that location.
So, for example, one of them went to South Africa and it was during apartheid. So how do we classify Chinese? Initially she was treated as white. So you’re on the white side. And they did takeaways as well in the food business. And then they reclassified the Chinese as black. So they had to move their business to the black area because of apartheid.
So that is a fascinating story. I’m going to call it my six Chinese grandmas as it were, because there were six of them. And that grandma, the South African grandma, became a mistress. She took the man, went with him to South Africa, and then they went over to Canada, where she lived and died. So before she did so, she did, they kind of went back and forth to Hong Kong and South Africa, and bizarrely, my father worked for the man and brought him over to Manchester en route to Canada. And that’s where my dad met my mom at the airport and my dad never went to Canada. That’s one story.
Then I got another grandma. She went to Singapore and she did a fish and chip shop in Singapore before fish and chips was even like, you know, what was it? So we look at that story with her. Then I’ve got one grandma who stayed in China all the way through the Cultural Revolution.
And so, you know, when I met her, she was so different from my grandma, you know, she was not open to the world. She was very, very petite and small, but very scared of authority. This was really how you’re brought up in the world. You know how you behave differently.
Then one grandma. It’s quite a sad story. She, her husband cheated on her with a Japanese woman.
And, they had the baby. And because of the war, they couldn’t tell anybody. You know, it was for my affair. So this grandma, who was the oldest grandma who hadn’t got children yet, had to take this baby in as her own so that the baby wouldn’t die during the war. And that’s a very sad story because, you know, a, the husband’s committed adultery, but b, she’s got to bring up the mistress’s child.
I mean, people won’t do it nowadays. But in those days, you know, this stoic generation would do anything to keep the family, you know, fabric intact. Then you got my grandmother, who came to the UK. So there was one more, she also stayed in China, there’s two that stayed in China.
Anyway, there are loads of different stories with different positions in society as well. You know, and then different countries that they ended up being in. I found that quite interesting, you know.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
Do you have children?
HELEN TSE
I haven’t got children.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
Does your sister or..
HELEN TSE
Yeah my twin sister’s got a five year old kid. And Janet, my younger sister’s got two kids. One’s 18, one’s 16.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
Do they know about these stories?
HELEN TSE
They know little bits. They don’t know this bit about the new book because I’ve not really written it. I’ve got all my notes. So I’ve interviewed everybody, I’ve written all my notes, but I’ve not actually put it into a book format yet.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
I’d want to read that.
HELEN TSE
It’s very close to the heart, really. You can really feel it when I write it, you know. That’s why I’ve been a bit cautious to write it, because when they were all alive, it really is very very sad.
My grandma passed away last year. The one in China. She’s the youngest one. I may revisit my notes again and see whether we can do something about it. Because I was fascinated about how they are treated, how Chinese are treated across the world.
For one to be you know, the wife, but the other one is the mistress of some other, you know? Man? But I was like, wow, you guys, you know. And the way they communicated as well, my grandmothers, is by writing letters to keep in touch. Of course, you know, it’s like, wow, it’s amazing. They’re very candid as well when they talk in the letters, they don’t hold back, it’s very very interesting.
SHIRLEY JAMIL
Is there anything else you want to add?
HELEN TSE
Well, I think I just want to say congratulations to you, New Earth Theatre, for, you know, all the brilliant work that you do. And, it’s so, so valuable that you give people like me a voice and people of ethnic minorities a voice as well. Because I would never know how to even approach or get that theatre going.
I had never seen Chinese people in theatre until Dim Sum Nights came to Sweet Mandarin. And then I was hooked. I was like, wow, I want more of this. How do I do that? The ways they put on the workshops they do, the interactive storytelling that they get involved in, it’s fascinating, you know? It’s voices that are not heard enough.
Whatever they do is always of excellent standard. It’s not, you know, mediocre or kind of a school standard. It’s really, really top of the game. So to see East, Southeast Asian actors do that, you know, and do it with a lot of love, a lot of passing, you know, it’s amazing. And then I’d seen these actors go on to do TV.
It makes me really happy to see that because, you know, it’s the right thing. It’s the right thing for them. It’s their dream that’s being fulfilled, helped by New Earth Theatre. Yeah. I hope they go on for many, many more years. And to say thank you for all the support they’ve given me and my family by creating Sweet Mandarin, the play called Mountains. It’s a wonderful production and it’s something that I’ll treasure all my life.